(11-24-2014 10:50 PM)Genius Wrote: [ -> ]I would vote for every one of the players mentioned except for Trammell and Walker. I've just never understood Trammell's candidacy, and I'm old enough to remember him playing.
Derek Jeter: .310/.377/.440 (115 OPS+) over 12602 PA
Alan Trammell: .285/.352/.415 (110 OPS+) over 9376 PA
Jeter's raw line looks more impressive, but that gap lessens once you remember their respective eras of play (Jeter centered on the era of big offense, Trammell only touching it at the end). Trammell's power in-prime is particularly impressive once you realize it was pre-Ripken/Jeter/ARod/Nomar really remaking SS as a power position and (largely) pre-steroids. And of course in the other direction Jeter did play an extra 3300 PA, which does matter immensely.
Then (despite Jeter's 5 GG > Trammell's 4) Jeter was of course a miserable defensive SS while Alan Trammell was a very very good one (28th all time in FanGraphs overall Defense metric at short).
The end result is two reasonably close players in terms of overall value. FanGraphs gives Jeter a bigger edge in WAR thanks to that playing time (73.5 to 63.7) while B-Ref has them quite close (71.8 to 70.4).
And that's career value (where Jeter and his 3300 extra PA obviously leads). Jeter's best years by OPS+ are 153, 132, 128 vs. Trammell's 155 and then 3x years of 138 OPS+. And that's offense, which is where Jeter is supposed to lead. Again taking JAWS, B-Ref has them at a dead heat essentially (57 for Jeter vs. 57.5 for Trammell). By FanGraphs, their respective best 7 years of WAR (so taking into account defense, but using the WAR method that likes Trammell less) are:
Jeter: 7.4, 6.8, 6.2, 6.1, 5.5, 4.9, 4.6 (41.5)
Trammell: 7.7, 6.9, 6.2, 5.7, 5.6, 5.3, 4.3 (41.7)
Derek Jeter is unironically discussed as a potential candidate to be the first ever unanimous Hall of Fame selection. Yes, Jeter has another seasons' worth of PA (734) in October and November at a high level along with some nice jewelry (thanks somewhat due to his own play and also in large part to his teams). But while their methods of creating value were different (Jeter a high-average wizard who could survive defensively just enough to justify staying at SS, Trammell a defensive wizard with a plus bat given his position but was hardly a stud), their actual respective values to their teams were quite close.
Really what Jeter did that Trammell didn't was hang on and provide some value at the back end of his career. 13.4 FanGraphs WAR from age 35 on (6.8 of which was in his age-35 year) vs. 2.8 for Trammell (actually had 3.6 in his age-35 season but his awful final season clawed some of it back). And I have a hard time accepting that the gap between an all-time legend (like Jeter) and a doesn't-deserve-the-Hall'er (as some feel about Trammell) exists purely thanks to his being slightly better in his hanger-on years. I mean heck, Jeter lasted maybe 2 years longer in terms of real valuable years, but Trammell started ~2 years earlier (first full year at 20 vs. 22 for Jeter).
Quote: But this is now the problem were the writers have arbitrarily left out players that deserve to be in. The HOF is essentially a joke.
Nah. It's still by far the best of the sports HoFs. Yes it has individual player problems, and it's resolution of the PED issue will leave one big and easy-to-describe gash in its side (along with the smaller Shoeless Joe/Pete Rose one), but in general it does a decent enough job of measuring players.
Dump a few of the really obvious, political, and largely early Veteran's Committee picks and the Hall is pretty spot on.